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Are you a Christian? Please come in

Not a Christian? come in but don't be obnoxiouse

by: Hereforareason

I have read the thread about Christianity being the base for what we believe about abortion, or not being the base. If you are a Christian, please come in and tell how that shapes your belief.
If you are not a Christian and want to know what the big deal is about it, by all means come in and ask your questions. But do not be obnoxiouse and I would ask that this thread not be overrun. I wish to be able to respond to every post because I believe this is very important. THE most important issue to be discussed anywhere. Thank you!
Looking forward to posts.
Amber

reply from: lovingmommyof2

I am a Christian but it doesn't mold my belief on the issue. Babies should not be murdered. Rather you are religious or not it is wrong. If you are religious though than many of you believe in reincarnation so maybe the murdered baby could be reborn someday. If you are not religious and believe in evolution and that is what makes abortion okay to you then isn't it wrong that the murdered baby will never get a chance at life?
I just found out a couple days ago that my Mom had an abortion after my brother but before me. It was 28 years ago and she still cried when telling me about it. I am horrified knowing that the baby was 22 weeks old. She regrets it still after 28 years. Abortion is wrong and a quick fix that will bring you a lifetime of pain, maybe not right away for all you "choice" people, no matter your religion.

reply from: xnavy

i believe in the Word of God and how it says that every sin must be either paid for or atoned for. i believe abortion is the
shedding of innocent blood and the bible says when blood is shed it talkes and God is hearing it. when the first murder was
committed, God came to the person that committed and said where is your brother and then told him the blood was talking to God
from the ground.

reply from: AshMarie88

Well for one, there are verses on children that can pretty much relate to abortion. It's very clear that ever person who calls themself a Christian should be pro-life. It only fits their religion.
I was raised Christian since I was little and developed my personal and political stances later on.
I know that even Jesus wouldn't have thought that killing little children was okay.

reply from: Hereforareason

I think that your belief as a Christian should greatly effect your mold on the issue, because as such you believe that God created life. It is preciouse. I have talked to many people who believe in evolution and since we came from monkeys, what value do we have?
I'm sorry to hear that.
I agree with what you said. It is a horrific "quick fix" that brings more pain and sorrow.
Amber

reply from: Hereforareason

God will have his vengence on those that shed innocent blood.
Oh what a debt we are heaping up.
Thanks Debra!
Amber

reply from: Hereforareason

I agree. If you call yourself a Christian and think that abortion is okay, even only in certain stances, I don't know if you are saved or not. I doubt it. That is hypocritical.
Amber

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Christianity is the base of my beliefs about abortion. Proverbs 24:11 says to save all being led to death. This applies to the unborn.

reply from: lovingmommyof2

I do believe that God created life and that it is precious. However, I also believe that life is precious no matter your religion, if any.
Abortion is wrong not only because God created life but because science has proven that human life begins at the time of conception.
I have 2 children how could I look into their eyes and not believe in God and know that life is precious and fragile.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Lovingmommy, I'm so sorry about your older brother. Perhaps you can take comfort in the fact he will be waiting to greet you in Heaven one day.
I feel, as a Christian, that God is the ultimate author of all my moral judgements, however, I don't think someone needs to believe in God to be pro-life. Most people don't need to believe in God to know murder of the born is wrong, so if you know that scientifically the unborn are human, you should support their rights too. But interestingly enough, people who depend on science and not religious get awfully a-scientific when presented with embryologist.
Abortion is also interesting in reincarnating religions too. For example, in Hinduism and Paganism, abortion is wrong even though people reincarnate. In those religions, the fact that someone is born again doesn't mean that you can kill them.

reply from: NathanG

Hello all,
Grace and Peace and Greetings in Christ Jesus.
I have some excellent links that almost sum up the Biblical case against abortion. However, since not everyone will necessarily visit them, especially people who are just browsing through to see what we say, I will summarize some of them first, and add one verse that I realized on my own that makes a profound case against abortion.
(I am using the New American Standard Bible, 1995 Updated Edition)
The word for 'children' ('ben' in Hebrew; 1121 in Strong's concordance dictionary) is the same word for children who have already been born.
The word 'baby'('brephos' in Greek; 1025 in Strong's concordance dictionary) is the same word used for the born baby Jesus in the following two verses:
and the same as used here:
Also note that the unborn John 'the Baptizer' actually responded to the presence of the nearby unborn Jesus by 'leaping' in his mother's womb with joy! Not something a mindless "piece of tissue" or "potential-human" would do, now is it?
Notice that David refers to himself as "I" and "me" while still in his mother's womb.
Again, and more explicitly, David says:
Again, David refers to himself as "me" while he was still in his mother's womb.
And he expresses beautifully God's special crafting of himself while he was there, yet pro-aborts want to kill some (or many) of these precious babies while God is beautifully crafting them into the creature that he wants them to be. They are assaulting God by assaulting His precious handiwork.
Job says:
Here again, Job is referring to himself as "me," the other as "him" and both together as "us" while they were still in their mothers' wombs.
He is arguing that though he has the privileged position of being a master of his bondservants in his post-birth life, he is really no better than his servants are, because they were both formed in the same humble, yet special and glorious way in their mothers' wombs.
Exodus 21:21-25 is a very key passage for the 'debate' about whether abortion is permitted by the Bible (debate? yeah, right; there is no legitimate debate . . . but they try . . .). Because there are two main views about what this passage means, and because they split over details, I will just refer you to a page that deals with this text fairly comprehensively (it's not super long, though, just maybe a little over two pages worth of html, less considering that it is in a narrow column, so please give it a look right quick)
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-2-exodus.html .
Psalm 82:4 says:
Admittedly, this verse is directed to judges of Israel who were governing corruptly, but we must remember that we are part of the government of America, and we govern by choosing who is elected, and by holding accountable and influencing those who are elected, and by exercising our rights of free speech and freedom to assemble, etc. We have many privileges and rights her in America, and with such comes great responsibility--Luke 12:48:
and Proverbs 31:8-9 says:
Again, this passage is directed to a king (Lemuel), but they still apply to us because we are part of the government of our nation, and besides, even if we weren't 'officially' part of our nation's government, we would still have responsibility to do all that is within our power to help those who are helpless.
And as Laurissa mentioned,
Proverbs 24:11-12 says:
There are several other passages that apply, but I think I have mentioned enough for one post. You may see these and others dealt with in more detail at these links:
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-1-bible.html - The Bible and Unborn Life
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-2-exodus.html - Exodus 21:22-25
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-3-morality.html - Biblical Morality
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-4-government.html - Government's Biblical Role
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-5-church.html - Abortion in the Church
http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-J-6-history.html - Church History and Abortion (Content still coming at time of this post)
These are from Eternal Perspectives Ministries - the Ministry of Randy Alcorn, author of Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments:
http://www.epm.org/articles/aborbibl.html - Biblical Perspectives On Unborn Children
http://www.epm.org/articles/aborhistory.html - Abortion in the Bible and Church History
http://www.epm.org/articles/earlych.html - Early Church Teachings on Abortion
http://www.epm.org/articles/greatcom.html - Life Issues: Distraction From the Great Commission or Part of It?
Finally, here is my verse that I don't think anyone I know of has ever brought up:
Did you notice that Jesus didn't say "when she gives life to the child," did He? No, He said "when she gives birth to the child," implying that the child was a child, before birth was given to him/her by the mother; He didn't say "that a human being [anthropos in Greek, meaning "man" in the general sense, hence "mankind" or "human being"] has been created into the world, did he? No, he said a "human being has been born into the world"--implying that he/she was a human being before he/she was born into the world. He could have said "a product of conception has been born into the world as a new human being," but He didn't
God bless you all in our Lord Jesus Christ, in Whom alone is Salvation and Eternal Life!
Grace and Peace!
Nathan Galeotti

reply from: tabithamarcotte

I am a Christian, and it certainly drives my pro-life stance. I wouldn't say it is the basis, because if I wasn't Christian I would still be pro-life.
"Let the little children come to me."

reply from: 1003

if i wasn't christian, i'd still be pro-choice.
jesus attoned for our sins. no more atonement is needed until armageddon.
meh. keep trying to twist the verses to fit your politics. when you read the Bible without bias, but just wanting God to talk to you, you'll find out what he really thinks.

reply from: AshMarie88

Are you:
Christian
or
Pro-choice
And no, you can't be both.

reply from: 1003

I AM both. who are you to tell me i can't be?

reply from: AshMarie88

To be a good Christian, you shouldn't be for killing God's most innocent children.
And I ask you again, would you be pro-choice if Mary had wanted to abort Jesus?

reply from: AshMarie88

I forgot this wasn't a thread to be obnoxious in.
Sorry Amber. :/

reply from: 1003

we have different brand's of christianity. As far as my beliefs, i was under the impresion that newly converted persons were the most innocent.

reply from: NathanG

1003,
why do you ignore what is so clear in the Bible?
I am not twisting verses to fit my views, I am letting them speak for themselves.
I know you have a reputation for being a troll here, 1003,
but I care for you.
I don't know why you take the stances that you do,
I don't know why you evade the Truth and answer with half-truths or with non-sense,
other than that there is something dark that you are clinging to that keeps you from coming into the Light.
I will be praying for you 1003,
and I am here to talk to you about whatever may be upon your heart, whether in private or on the forum.
I am trying to extend God's grace to you, 1003, from my own heart, because I do truly care about you, 1003. I am a Christian. I am Pro-Life. I care about your Life.
God bless you, 1003, in Christ Jesus.
Sincerely,
Nathan Galeotti

reply from: Hereforareason

"Christianity is the base of my beliefs about abortion. Proverbs 24:11 says to save all being led to death. This applies to the unborn."
I believe it does. It also applies to those still living in sin who are heading for hell.
"I don't think someone needs to believe in God to be pro-life. "
""Whenever a woman is in labor she has grief, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a human being has been born into the world."
-- Jesus -- The Gospel according to John - 16:21"
Thanks for the verse Nathan. I don't think I had looked at that verse that way before.
" I forgot this wasn't a thread to be obnoxious in.
Sorry Amber. :/ "
Thanks Asheley. 1003 is just the person I wanted to debate at the moment, so I"ll be off.
Amber
No, not really, but it doens't work the other way around.
"I do believe that God created life and that it is precious. However, I also believe that life is precious no matter your religion, if any."
It should be. Thank you.

reply from: Hereforareason

" if i wasn't christian, i'd still be pro-choice.
jesus attoned for our sins. no more atonement is needed until armageddon.
meh. keep trying to twist the verses to fit your politics. when you read the Bible without bias, but just wanting God to talk to you, you'll find out what he really thinks."
Anything can be twisted any direction. Reading the bible without bias is very important.
1003, What sin's did Jesus atone for? How did he?
Amber

reply from: holopaw

You act as if salvation is a get out of jail (go out and sin) free card. We are told to go forth and sin no more. Killing unborn children is a sin.

reply from: holopaw

There are many false Christians going to false churches and spouting doctrine and using it in the pursuit of evil.

reply from: holopaw

He means denominations. I can only imagine which denomination "brand" 1003 is. There are a lot of So-called Christian churches which are under the influence of the Prince of Darkness. Christian means Christ-like. It entails more than just saying "I'm a Christian."

reply from: Hereforareason

1003? bumping this up because it is lost on the second page
Amber

reply from: 1003

jesus atoned for all of our sins. didn't you go to catechism?

reply from: Hereforareason

"jesus atoned for all of our sins"
So, I can do what I want and just party becuase he will forgive everything I do?
Amber

reply from: 1003

you know the answer to that as well as i do.

reply from: AshMarie88

Of course.
You know it's moral to go sin every day, then repent, and repeat.

reply from: Hereforareason

"you know the answer to that as well as i do. "
1003, shall we try another play acting? This one should be simple. I don't know the answer. I'm asking. Is it necessary for me to "accept" Jesus to go to heaven? Will I go to hell if I don't? If so, how do I "accept" him?
Amber

reply from: 1003

what is the point of this?

reply from: Hereforareason

"what is the point of this? "
Point being, I might be heading for hell mightent I? Are you content to sit back and relax knowing that someone who asked you for the answer to salvation might die tonight and spend eternity in hell?
Amber

reply from: 1003

i don't believe you. i think you know the answers as well as i do. so what IS the point of this?

reply from: yoda

She's trying to unmask a fake Christian, but you won't answer even her simple question.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

1003, God does not forgive us until we're sorry, and in order to be sorry you have to try not to do what you did again. You're not supposed to take God's mercy for granted like that.
So you're saying you're completely ok with serial killers so long as at the end of every day they tell God they're sorry?

reply from: 1003

it's not really about "being sorry" so much as being repentant. that means honestly seeing you were wrong and humbling yourself. if you do that, then you won't do it again. and, no, he doesn't want to hear "i'm sorry"... jesus gave us a killer template for praying. serial killers are also sick people. you wouldn't blame a sick person for coughing, because, even though it spreads germs, it offers temporary relief. just the same, we need to tread the disease that serial killers have... and don't forget, if a man strikes you on your right cheek....

reply from: laurissamarcotte

So then why do you think it's ok to go and sin the same sin repeatedly and just take God's mercy for granted?

reply from: Hereforareason

1003, from what I have experienced interacting with you, I am afraid that you aren't a Christian. Does that concern you at all?
Amber

reply from: 1003

As long as God knows where my heart lies, then no. I think you ought to think (and pray) a little more before you post something like that.

reply from: Hereforareason

"As long as God knows where my heart lies, then no. I think you ought to think (and pray) a little more before you post something like that."
What lies in your heart will show in your every day life. Think about what Jesus did. Who he did it for. What if you are wrong? "Be dilligent to make your calling and election sure"
Think about it 1003. If you are saved, then you have been given a pardon from the death sentence you were under. When you recieved it, you were told to go give pardons to others who would believe and accept them. Are you going to even try to get it to them? Or does it not matter to you now that you have the pardon?
Amber

reply from: holopaw

I think you ought to think (and pray) a little more before you post that it is acceptable to kill a child in the womb.

reply from: Hereforareason

I think you ought to think (and pray) a little more before you post that it is acceptable to kill a child in the womb. "
A Child that God created in his image.
"You knit me together in my mother's womb"

reply from: Shiprahagain

1003, the fact is the Bible condemns the killing of humans and offers no caveat legalizing the killing of humans dependent on another human being for sustenance. So, on what theological basis do you justify abortion?

reply from: NathanG

We are waiting for your reply, 1003.
At least I still am.
God bless you in the Lord Jesus, 1003.
Sincerely,
Nathan Galeotti

reply from: 1003

Oh. i had no intention of replying to ship.

reply from: holopaw

I guess that answers that.

reply from: 1003

no. it pointedly does NOT answer that.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Then what is your answer to Shiprah's question?

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

A Christian is one who follows Christ (obeys the Messiah). Many have built a religion around endorsing what they want to do and falsely call it Christianity. If you are doing your own thing, such as killing preborn children, you are not following Christ and are not a Christian.

reply from: Tam

Because you have no good answer? Or because you have the world's best answer, but you just don't want to share it with us....

reply from: faithman

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

reply from: faithman

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 ¶ [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

reply from: yoda

I pick the former, and would even bet money on it.......

reply from: faithman

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jhn 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jhn 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jhn 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Jhn 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

reply from: 1003

i don't intend to reply to ship because i think she's beligerant, and i have no intention of drawing any more of her sarcasm or pseudo-intelligence in my direction.

reply from: holopaw

In other words, he has no answer. Good job, Shiraph. Got the Anti-Lifer backpedalling.

reply from: NathanG

Will you respond to me, 1003?
I would very much like to know how you justify abortion in light of your understanding of Scripture.
If you really believe that you are right, then you must see our viewpoint as being hopelessly incapable of seeing the "truth" that you see. I know how it feels to to have people question certain beliefs of mine and then feel that I have a valid answer, but that trying to share it would be fruitless because they would never really hear me out and would "refute" my argument based on faulty warrents that they dogmatically feel justify their position, even though all the while I see holes through their warrents like swiss cheese--but trying to point out those holes when they are being so dogmatic and hard-headed is like trying to reason with angry rhino--you feel sure you're just going to get bloody and bruised. Is this at all how you feel with us? Will you please try to explain your perspective to me? Even though I disagree with you, I promise that I will do my very best to hear you out thoughtfully and patiently. I truly want to understand how you view reality. Will you please discuss your views with me? I am sincerely trying to understand you.
God bless you in Christ Jesus, 1003,
Sincerely and Hopefully,
Nathan Galeotti

reply from: 1003

yea. one of these days. i'm working like a dog right now. when i get a break,i 'll explain it. for now, i only really have time for superficial conversation....

reply from: holopaw

IOW, he can always find time to advocate the killing of the unborn. But finding time to share or explain the gospel is not something he is committed to.

reply from: NathanG

I will be waiting.
Sincerely,
Nathan Galeotti
God bless you in Christ Jesus, 1003.

reply from: faithman

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Hbr 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham.
Hbr 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Hbr 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
No one can say they are christian, and in the same breath say that it is right to destroy the pre-born image of Christ.

reply from: 1003

think what you want holopaw.

reply from: holopaw

Feel free to dispute any falsehood I have written.

reply from: NathanG

I will still be waiting.
God bless you both in Christ Jesus.
Sincerely,
Nathan

reply from: faithman

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Christianity is a conversion, not a descission. By nature, all man kind are born sinners. We were born with the fallen nature of Adam. A true faith in Christ, comes about when we surrender to Him as Lord, and He kills the old nature of Adam by the cross, and births in us the nature of Christ by the power of the resurrection. A true conversion experiance dose not happen by accepting Christ as savior, but surrendering to Him as Lord. If one has truely done this, then he is a new creature. Old things are passed away, behold all things have become new. If one is truely Christ's. then the very thought of sin is contrarry to his new nature. Though we may struggle with a sin habit, we know it is wrong. The most miserable person on earth, is a true christian caught up in sin, as he is involved in something that is contrarry to who he truely is. Abortion is the distruction of the pre-born image of Christ, and is totally contrarry to a true faith in Christ. There is no such thing as a pro-abort christian. Abortion and faith in the Lord Jesus are simply incompatible. Only a false christian can say it is OK to distroy womb children.

reply from: Hereforareason

Is 1003 still around anywhere?
Amber

reply from: thecatholicamerican

Cathechism? Are you Catholic? If that were the case than you would or should know that abortion is strictly forbidden and anyone that has an abortion, aids in providing another in having an abortion or supports others in their decision to have an abortion is in a state of grave sin. It may not be my authority to tell you that abortion is sin or what your sins are, but the sanctity of life is clearly shown in Scripture and abortion is condemed by the Holy See of Rome. Abortion is sin.

reply from: thecatholicamerican

Cathechism? Are you Catholic? If that were the case than you would or should know that abortion is strictly forbidden and anyone that has an abortion, aids in providing another in having an abortion or supports others in their decision to have an abortion is in a state of grave sin. It may not be my authority to tell you that abortion is sin or what your sins are, but the sanctity of life is clearly shown in Scripture and abortion is condemed by the Holy See of Rome. Abortion is sin.

reply from: NerdyGerdy

I am not a practicing Christian, I am by birth, but I don't attend church so I would wish not to be included in their practices. Not that I have any objections to the faith of Christians, if I were to die tomorrow, I would have no objection to be buried as a Christian. I just believe you guys attend church, and aren't delinquints like I am.
I have my own personal beliefs, I am open-minded, any possiblity is explorable. Jesus Christ was a man, in His heart I know he would've cried upon hearing what our people have turned into. I consider myself a Deist, which is a person who believes in a God, whoever or whatever it may be.
I believe patience is a virtue long since forgotten in this fast paced quick fix culture. Even I am impatient.
Abortion is the result of a culture whose personal gratification knows no bounds. I have nothing against abortion for medical reasons (health of the mother), but for optional reasons. They should've thought about that before they took their pants off.

reply from: Hereforareason

Hi Nerdy.
What do you mean when you say by birth? Your parents are Christians? Does that rub off on someone?
Delinquint huH? what are you going to do then on judgment day if you did die tomorrow?
So you would say that you are prolife with exceptions?
Hi concerned. Very true, just because someone does or does not attend church does not make them something different and more improtantly, does not save them from eternity in hell.
Amber

reply from: Tam

Hi, NG. Welcome to the forum.
Tam

reply from: NerdyGerdy

I've accepted the possibility I may go to hell, but if I do, so will many others as I haven't done half of what they do.
My parents attended church, my father an Anglican, mother a Methodist.
My Dad's family is kind of split about the areas of religon, one aunt another Methodist, another aunt a communist, another not really caring, though they were all raised Anglican. For one reason or another, he didn't take us to church.
Mom's is a bit different, I'm not sure (neither is she) about much of her background, although she did attend a Methodist church as a child.
Yes I'm prolife with exceptions. Elective no, if mother and child may die, I would feel bad about it, but not as much as a perfectly healthy woman "choosing" to "correct a mistake".

reply from: yoda

You know, even when an abortion is considered "medically indicated", it really isn't necessary to intentionally kill the child. Such unborn children that are so unfortunate as to be in that situation can be delivered intact and alive without any additional risk to the mother, and given every chance to survive.
That can be considered morally benign, whereas an "abortion" is done for the specific purpose of killing the child.

reply from: NerdyGerdy

^ Maybe I wasn't thinking too clearly on that last part.
I'd heard of a story about a woman with heart difficulties who'd gotten pregnant and she (fearing death) "choose" (it was early). She and her husband thought long and hard about it, they were devastated, almost as if she had a miscarriage.
I just got to thinking and, if I were her I would've talked to my doctor before becoming pregnant in the first place...
I've seemingly had a change of heart just now, you've made me think, and that's good.

reply from: bradensmommy

IMO, when you die your soul waits for a concieved egg and then you go into it. I believe in reincarnation even before Sylvia Browne talked about it in her books. That lady is a die-hard Christian and she'll tell you that.
Of course if the baby was going to be aborted then a soul doesn't go into it she also states.
Has anyone ever encounter a stranger and you swear up and down you know the person? I have a few times and I guarantee you have known them in another life.

reply from: Hereforareason

Hey braden,
I've never heard of that woman but she can't be a die-hard christian because that is one of the main things in Christianity and she has it messed up.
Hey Nerdy,
you are right a lot of people will be going to hell. But you can't judge yourself based on other people and get away from it. God's standard is the one to be worried about, and it's worth taking the time to think over. If you are wrong then you are in big trouble aren't you?
Amber

reply from: yoda

Not to dis Ms. Brown or anything, but such statements IMO are pure speculation and have absolutely nothing to do with the morality of abortion.
I don't think any of us has any solid, certain knowledge of the mechanics of ensoulment or reincarnation. Not to mention that such speculation is often used by proaborts to make the claim that it's okay to kill a baby before it "has a soul", as it they had a clue either.

reply from: Tam

Hm, well, as for whether Christians believe in reincarnation or not, a small but significant percentage (one-fifth) do, and the number is apparently growing:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/120/story_12008_1.html

Why it's unproductive to probe the reincarnation issue in the context of abortion--because of doofuses like the ones who wrote this page, which says that until we have a complete understanding of every aspect of the spiritual nature of human life, we can't say abortion is wrong:
http://www.choice101.com/77-religious-freedom.html

Bottom line: even if you know 100% that I'll have another life at some point, that doesn't mean it's ok for you to destroy this one, just as even if you know a mom will have another child at some point doesn't make it ok for you to kidnap the one she has in her arms. Each life is unique and irreplaceable, and it's not your right to end it intentionally.

reply from: Shiprahagain

While some Christians may believe in reincarnation, it isn't part of Christian doctrine.

reply from: Tam

Right. As far as I know, Christian doctrine doesn't address the issue either way. I mean, there are things that can be interpreted one way or another, but never is reincarnations specifically mentioned. Is that right?

reply from: Shiprahagain

Actually, reincarnation goes against the doctrine.
CHRISTIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE
P.O. Box 8500, Charlotte, NC 28271
Web: www.equip.org Tel: 704.887.8200 Fax: 704.887.8299

Fri Sep 08 15:08:39 2006
Perspective: CP0504
REINCARNATION: CAN IT BE RECONCILED WITH SCRIPTURE?

Few people today are surprised when they hear someone claiming to have lived before. Thanks to celebrities like Shirley MacLaine, reincarnation has become a household word. Additionally, she numbers among those who maintain that even the Bible espouses reincarnation. But just how accurate is that assertion?
Reincarnation asserts that death is but an intermediary stage in a cycle where the eternal soul passes from one physical body to another. This cycle of death and rebirth continues until the person finally attains a state of utter perfection. For many, this includes becoming "one with the universe." Can such a view be found within the pages of the Scriptures?
The answer is an emphatic NO! Reincarnation blatantly opposes the message of God's Word. It is essentially an attempt to bootstrap one's way out of this world, a system of works righteousness condemned by Scripture. "(God) saved us," Paul wrote to Titus, "not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy" (Tit. 3:5; cf. Eph. 2:8-9).
Furthermore, reincarnation does away with the uniqueness and sovereignty of Christ. No longer is Jesus "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29) nor the Messiah pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities (Isa. 53; cf. John 1:41). Instead, the eyes of reincarnation see human beings as healers of their own wounds, arduously striving to settle a debt Christ had already paid in full.
Reincarnation is especially dangerous because it denies the reality of eternal torment resulting from the rejection of God's gift of salvation. It peddles the message that there remain countless chances to try harder and do better during upcoming lifetimes. In contrast, the Bible explicitly teaches that "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27-28). There are no second chances. There is no coming back.
Scripture tells us that upon death "the spirit returns to God who gave it" (Ecc. 12:7), that "to be away from the body" is to be "at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8). Indeed, the Christian's hope rests not on the reincarnation of the soul, but in the resurrection of the body (1 Cor. 15:42-55).
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0504.htm

reply from: Tam

Nothing you just posted is a direct biblical refutation of the idea of reincarnation. I was just making the point that the bible doesn't say "reincarnation isn't real" anywhere. I concede that christian doctrine, which is supposed to be based on the bible, maintains it is not real, but I have yet to see a biblical denial of it specifically. I understand that it doesn't mesh with Christian doctrine; I was just pointing out that nowhere in the bible is it specifically mentioned and rejected. In fact, all of the stuff you quote from corinthians could be just as true even if reincarnation happens, for reincarnation could easily mean that after death, the spirit returns to God for reassignment to a new body, but spends some time "at home with God" in between, and the resurrection of the body might not mean in one lifetime, either. As for humans being healers of their own wounds, that is not necessary to believe in order to believe we have more than one physical lifetime.
My point was just that there are some people who say the bible espouses reincarnation and some that say it rejects it, but it doesn't do either one explicitly--either way, it has to be implied from text that doesn't mention reincarnation at all.

reply from: Hereforareason

"Right. As far as I know, Christian doctrine doesn't address the issue either way. I mean, there are things that can be interpreted one way or another, but never is reincarnations specifically mentioned. Is that right?"
"It is appointed unto Man once to die and after this the judgment"
Amber

reply from: faithman

UHH excuse me!! Appointed once to die. If christian doctrine made room for reincarnation, it would say it is appointed many times to die. Reincarnation puts the focus on the efforts of man as does all false religion includding false christianity. True christian faith puts the focus completely on Christ. There is no other name in heaven or earth by which a man must be saved. It is by grace thru faith in the Lord Jesus Christ plus nothing. Human effort is filthy rags in the eyes of God.

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

There are many who call themselves Christian. Jesus said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say." "He who says he knows Him, but keepeth not His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Many believe in pagan ideas; immortality of the soul and reincarnation.
The Bible says the dead are not alive. In the day a person dies his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4) The dead do not know anything. (Ecceliastes 9:5)
When you die you perish and begin turning back into ashes. "For dust you are, and unto dust shalt thou return". (Genesis 3:19)
Since the Spirit, the mind's non-physical component, returns to God, a future resurrection is possible. So far, no one except Jesus has been raised to eternal life. Those who have died are compared to those who sleep. They are in their graves. Hell is a word denoting the grave, pit, or hole into which the deceased body is placed. Death is the absence of life.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

The soul IS immortal. It never dies.
Then why does the Bible often say "The Kingdom of Heaven shall be theirs?"
This means Adam was made from dust, and when we die, our bodies return to dust.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Matthew 5:1
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:10
Blessed are the persecuted because of righeousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.

reply from: Shiprahagain

There are many who call themselves Christian. Jesus said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say." "He who says he knows Him, but keepeth not His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Many believe in pagan ideas; immortality of the soul and reincarnation.
The Bible says the dead are not alive. In the day a person dies his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4) The dead do not know anything. (Ecceliastes 9:5)
When you die you perish and begin turning back into ashes. "For dust you are, and unto dust shalt thou return". (Genesis 3:19)
Since the Spirit, the mind's non-physical component, returns to God, a future resurrection is possible. So far, no one except Jesus has been raised to eternal life. Those who have died are compared to those who sleep. They are in their graves. Hell is a word denoting the grave, pit, or hole into which the deceased body is placed. Death is the absence of life.
Actually, have you read Randy Alcorn (the prolife Christian minister's) book on Heaven? There is a lot of scriptural evidence that we go to some intermediate Heaven or Hell before the ones made new after Judgement Day.

reply from: Hereforareason

"Actually, have you read Randy Alcorn (the prolife Christian minister's) book on Heaven? There is a lot of scriptural evidence that we go to some intermediate Heaven or Hell before the ones made new after Judgement Day. "
I dont' know what evidence he can find to say that, I believe the bible teaches against that.
When we die we may very well be "out of it" and not know anything. But then the resurection will happen and we will be immortal. In heaven or in hell. (Hell not being death, but the lake of fire as God describes it)
Amber

reply from: Shiprahagain

Well, for one thing, Jesus tells the man who dies beside him on the cross that he will be with him "this day" in Heaven. Revelation 6:9-1 Shows people already in Heaven looking forward to Judgment.

reply from: faithman

2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

reply from: faithman

Luk 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Now let's see. Abraham is dead but not asleep in the grave, lazarus is dead but not asleep in the grave, heck, even the rich dude seems to be fully awake though dead. HHHHMMM may haps the doctrine of soul sleep be a false one?

reply from: faithman

Luk 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Now let's see. Abraham is dead but not asleep in the grave, lazarus is dead but not asleep in the grave, heck, even the rich dude seems to be fully awake though dead. HHHHMMM may haps the doctrine of soul sleep be a false one?


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