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Dumbing down?

by: JosieCashew

Ok, I could be wrong, but I remember how about 15-20 years ago abortion ads in the phone book would say they offered "Pregnancy Termination." Nowadays, the ads tend to say "ABORTIONS" in big huge letters. Was this changed because the some clinic staff think some of their potential "customers" didn't know what "termination" meant, so they were losing buisness?

reply from: Tam

Probably that's part of it. Another part is surely to distinguish them from "Abortion Alternatives" which comes first in the yellow pages.

reply from: holopaw

PLanned Death has also convinced many women that abortion is nothing to be ashamed of. That's why the terminology has changed also I suspect.

reply from: JosieCashew

Here's another kind of example. I live on Cape Cod and I saw an ad for a Providence, RI clinic that used the words, "Consider Crossing The Bridge!" I MHO if I was writing an ad for a place that provided emotionally painful surgery, I don't think I'd want to sell it like I would Chinese food!

reply from: holopaw

If you are attempting to make it seem like no big deal you would. Look at the Planned Death website. Lots of families and smiling people.

reply from: krazzycool

ok one its planned parent hood and two abortions are ok aslong as the women are informed about all their options

reply from: AshMarie88

No, it's not Planned Parenthood. I call it Planned Death, because that is exactly what they are.
And two, abortions are okay as long as women are informed of their options? Alright, in the same way, is murder of a disabled child OK if the parents are informed of their options on keeping or "getting rid of" the child?
Just because abortion is an option, doesn't mean it's "ok". If you even cared what happened to the unborn, you'd know why we are against the "choice" of killing them.

reply from: FxChiP

No, it's called Planned Parenthood, because abortion isn't the only thing they advocate.

reply from: AshMarie88

Then you gotta wonder why they give more abortions than adoption referrals or parenting advice.
And also why their condoms are of the least quality than most others. And why they make such huge profits each year.
Hmmm...

reply from: FxChiP

Then you gotta wonder why they give more abortions than adoption referrals or parenting advice.
And also why their condoms are of the least quality than most others. And why they make such huge profits each year.
Hmmm...
Planned Parenthood makes condoms? Ew. I suppose it's better than nothing, though...?
It's possible to advocate more for one thing than others. I personally advocate gay marriage and am anti-Digital Rights Management more than pro-choice. Why I'm arguing on a pro-life forum or two is a bit beyond me. I should argue on the pro-choice ones a little, get some damn experience. But it doesn't mean you don't advocate the others, just that you advocate them less. Doesn't make you completely good or bad, either.

reply from: holopaw

Then you gotta wonder why they give more abortions than adoption referrals or parenting advice.
And also why their condoms are of the least quality than most others. And why they make such huge profits each year.
Hmmm...
Planned Parenthood makes condoms? Ew. I suppose it's better than nothing, though...?
It's possible to advocate more for one thing than others. I personally advocate gay marriage and am anti-Digital Rights Management more than pro-choice. Why I'm arguing on a pro-life forum or two is a bit beyond me. I should argue on the pro-choice ones a little, get some damn experience. But it doesn't mean you don't advocate the others, just that you advocate them less. Doesn't make you completely good or bad, either.
Racial separation is not the only thing the Ku Klux Klan advocates. But that is what they are known for. They preach racism well. Planned Death preaches a woman's right to choose to kill her unborn child. Considering 4,000 babies are killed a day, they preach murder well. I spent some time on the Pro-Choice board. They are beginning to be a waste of time. They believe in censorship there.

reply from: yoda

Excellent point, holopaw. PP is THE largest provider of abortions in this country, so they have earned their reputation.

reply from: krazzycool

No, it's not Planned Parenthood. I call it Planned Death, because that is exactly what they are.
And two, abortions are okay as long as women are informed of their options? Alright, in the same way, is murder of a disabled child OK if the parents are informed of their options on keeping or "getting rid of" the child?
Just because abortion is an option, doesn't mean it's "ok". If you even cared what happened to the unborn, you'd know why we are against the "choice" of killing them.
I care about the unborn. but i care about women more. I know why your against it i used to be pro-life myself, i respect your views and understand them, but my views are pro-choice and i believe that a woman should have more rights than a fetus

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Why? She got herself pregnant, and she has no right to murder her child just because she went and slept with someone. It would not be fair.

reply from: AshMarie88

No, it's not Planned Parenthood. I call it Planned Death, because that is exactly what they are.
And two, abortions are okay as long as women are informed of their options? Alright, in the same way, is murder of a disabled child OK if the parents are informed of their options on keeping or "getting rid of" the child?
Just because abortion is an option, doesn't mean it's "ok". If you even cared what happened to the unborn, you'd know why we are against the "choice" of killing them.
I care about the unborn. but i care about women more. I know why your against it i used to be pro-life myself, i respect your views and understand them, but my views are pro-choice and i believe that a woman should have more rights than a fetus
Why did you change your mind on abortion?

reply from: krazzycool

Why? She got herself pregnant, and she has no right to murder her child just because she went and slept with someone. It would not be fair.
so because i personally never want to have kids i should abstain from sex my whould life? People have no right to force a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy.

reply from: AshMarie88

Why? She got herself pregnant, and she has no right to murder her child just because she went and slept with someone. It would not be fair.
so because i personally never want to have kids i should abstain from sex my whould life? People have no right to force a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy.
And yet you have a right to force someone much smaller and innocent than you to die?
If you don't want kids, don't have sex or take precautions when you do. Don't kill someone just because of YOUR mistake.
9-10 months of pregnancy is NOTHING when you're giving someone their own life. A woman can live thru a pregnancy... She shouldn't have the right to kill the baby.

reply from: krazzycool

No, it's not Planned Parenthood. I call it Planned Death, because that is exactly what they are.
And two, abortions are okay as long as women are informed of their options? Alright, in the same way, is murder of a disabled child OK if the parents are informed of their options on keeping or "getting rid of" the child?
Just because abortion is an option, doesn't mean it's "ok". If you even cared what happened to the unborn, you'd know why we are against the "choice" of killing them.
I care about the unborn. but i care about women more. I know why your against it i used to be pro-life myself, i respect your views and understand them, but my views are pro-choice and i believe that a woman should have more rights than a fetus
Why did you change your mind on abortion?
i thought about it from a different prespective, first i thought "well she could just give it up for adoption" but then i thought of the whole pregnancy. it could be emotionaly scarring for the girl, she could have health risks, or she could still be in high school, and unprepared and not mentally able to go through pregnancy give birth only to be kicked out of her house by her parents. i know some might be understanding or would raise the child themselvs. but some girls would be thrown in the streets, and would probally seek a backally abortion. i can think of a million different senarios. And i decided that abortion should be kept leagal because it might be the best choice for someone.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD

reply from: krazzycool

Why? She got herself pregnant, and she has no right to murder her child just because she went and slept with someone. It would not be fair.
so because i personally never want to have kids i should abstain from sex my whould life? People have no right to force a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy.
And yet you have a right to force someone much smaller and innocent than you to die?
If you don't want kids, don't have sex or take precautions when you do. Don't kill someone just because of YOUR mistake.
9-10 months of pregnancy is NOTHING when you're giving someone their own life. A woman can live thru a pregnancy... She shouldn't have the right to kill the baby.
i will thake precautions but birthcontroll can fail, then what?
and a woman could die in a pregnancy expecially if she can complications with her heart.

reply from: AshMarie88

Krazzy, women dying from pregnancies is VERY rare these days. Since technology is so greatly improving, doctors have ways to help her along with her pregnancy and keep both her and the baby alive even if there are potential death risks.
Also, women in riskful pregnancies, if they take good care of themselves, will be much healthier during the pregnancy.
Fact remains, more women live when giving birth than when they abort. In fact, abortion is 4 times more deadly than carrying to term. I just need to find the link to the medical article...

reply from: krazzycool

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD

Why shouldn't they force a pregnancy on someone? because pregnancy and motherhood is a HUGE responsibility. Some people are not ready to go through that. Not every one who does not want kids will abstain form sex their whole life. and birth controll can fail.

reply from: krazzycool

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?

reply from: AshMarie88

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD

Why shouldn't they force a pregnancy on someone? because pregnancy and motherhood is a HUGE responsibility. Some people are not ready to go through that. Not every one who does not want kids will abstain form sex their whole life. and birth controll can fail.
Pregnancy isn't forced on anyone. Pregnancy is a natural process.
And pregnancy and motherhood are responsibilities, but so is sex. MANY people are so careless when having sex, they don't think about the consequences and don't take the best precautions when doing it. People need to be so much more careful.
For the people who don't want kids, they could get sterilized or something of that sort. There is no reason to not when you're having sex and taking the chance of getting pregnancy, when you're just going to abort when you find out you're pregnant.

reply from: GodsLaw2Live

KrassyCool: Our founding documents say we are all equal. What do you mean by saying some citizens should have more rights than others? Our founding fathers used the principle of equality from the Bible, where God says he is no respector of persons and that we should hold the poor in the same regards as we do a rich person. I believe your system is defective, creating classes with different levels of rights, classes that should receive different levels of respect. For you said, a woman should have more rights than a preborn child. This is against the US Constitution and the Bible's positions.

reply from: AshMarie88

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?
Women rarely die from birth and pregnancy, yet about 4,000 babie die a day from a so called "great choice", and most of them are done because there is NO risk to the mom.
I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.

reply from: krazzycool

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?
Women rarely die from birth and pregnancy, yet about 4,000 babie die a day from a so called "great choice", and most of them are done because there is NO risk to the mom.
I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.
acually 4,000 pregnancy's are aborted a day, no babies are involved.
in 1st trimester abortions the baby is not even aware of its own existance yet.

reply from: krazzycool

ah but seperation of church and state. the Bible has no place in government only science and women who can think and feal should have more rights than a featus that does not know it exists.

reply from: krazzycool

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD

Why shouldn't they force a pregnancy on someone? because pregnancy and motherhood is a HUGE responsibility. Some people are not ready to go through that. Not every one who does not want kids will abstain form sex their whole life. and birth controll can fail.
Pregnancy isn't forced on anyone. Pregnancy is a natural process.
And pregnancy and motherhood are responsibilities, but so is sex. MANY people are so careless when having sex, they don't think about the consequences and don't take the best precautions when doing it. People need to be so much more careful.
For the people who don't want kids, they could get sterilized or something of that sort. There is no reason to not when you're having sex and taking the chance of getting pregnancy, when you're just going to abort when you find out you're pregnant.
this is all true. but should pregnancy be used as a punsishment? I dont think it should be. i would hate growing up knowing that i was unwanted. that i was the punishment for someone's mistake.

reply from: AshMarie88

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD

Why shouldn't they force a pregnancy on someone? because pregnancy and motherhood is a HUGE responsibility. Some people are not ready to go through that. Not every one who does not want kids will abstain form sex their whole life. and birth controll can fail.
Pregnancy isn't forced on anyone. Pregnancy is a natural process.
And pregnancy and motherhood are responsibilities, but so is sex. MANY people are so careless when having sex, they don't think about the consequences and don't take the best precautions when doing it. People need to be so much more careful.
For the people who don't want kids, they could get sterilized or something of that sort. There is no reason to not when you're having sex and taking the chance of getting pregnancy, when you're just going to abort when you find out you're pregnant.
this is all true. but should pregnancy be used as a punsishment? I dont think it should be. i would hate growing up knowing that i was unwanted. that i was the punishment for someone's mistake.
Pregnancy isn't a punishment, pregnancy is a RESULT of an act two people do.

reply from: AshMarie88

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?
Women rarely die from birth and pregnancy, yet about 4,000 babie die a day from a so called "great choice", and most of them are done because there is NO risk to the mom.
I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.
acually 4,000 pregnancy's are aborted a day, no babies are involved.
in 1st trimester abortions the baby is not even aware of its own existance yet.
4,000 pregnancies are ended a day, but what happens to the UNBORN CHILD? Oh yea, it's cut up and sucked thru a small tube, then disposed of. There ARE babies involved. Little tiny, helpless, defenseless babies that have done nothing to the women carrying them.
Oh I love how people treat others like garbage these days. It's like they think they're the only important ones and those weaker than them should just die. Oh, the humanity. *sarcasm*

reply from: krazzycool

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?
Women rarely die from birth and pregnancy, yet about 4,000 babie die a day from a so called "great choice", and most of them are done because there is NO risk to the mom.
I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.
acually 4,000 pregnancy's are aborted a day, no babies are involved.
in 1st trimester abortions the baby is not even aware of its own existance yet.
4,000 pregnancies are ended a day, but what happens to the UNBORN CHILD? Oh yea, it's cut up and sucked thru a small tube, then disposed of. There ARE babies involved. Little tiny, helpless, defenseless babies that have done nothing to the women carrying them.
Oh I love how people treat others like garbage these days. It's like they think they're the only important ones and those weaker than them should just die. Oh, the humanity. *sarcasm*
yes i do love how people treat eachother today. forcing women to go through a pregnancy, because their beliefs say they have to.

reply from: AshMarie88

true deaths from pregnancys are rare but that does not change the fact that they do happen. and abortion should be an option. as should medical treatments that would help a woman through this kind of pregnancy, but the issue is some women cannot afford this type of treatment. what about them?
Women rarely die from birth and pregnancy, yet about 4,000 babie die a day from a so called "great choice", and most of them are done because there is NO risk to the mom.
I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.
acually 4,000 pregnancy's are aborted a day, no babies are involved.
in 1st trimester abortions the baby is not even aware of its own existance yet.
4,000 pregnancies are ended a day, but what happens to the UNBORN CHILD? Oh yea, it's cut up and sucked thru a small tube, then disposed of. There ARE babies involved. Little tiny, helpless, defenseless babies that have done nothing to the women carrying them.
Oh I love how people treat others like garbage these days. It's like they think they're the only important ones and those weaker than them should just die. Oh, the humanity. *sarcasm*
yes i do love how people treat eachother today. forcing women to go through a pregnancy, because their beliefs say they have to.
*sigh*
How many times does it have to be said that pregnancy is a natural process and it cannot be forced?

reply from: krazzycool

natural process yes. it cannot be forced. but by denying a person an abortion you are forcing them to go through the rest of the pregnancy.

reply from: AshMarie88

Then I guess she should be more careful the next time she decides to open herself up to the chance of pregnancy. It shouldn't surprise her if she goes and has sex.

reply from: stopabortionnow

if a women dosen't want a baby have sex safe-use the pill & make sure the guy is wearing a condom-do BOTH.
No one has to have a baby if they don't want to.

reply from: krazzycool

if a women dosen't want a baby have sex safe-use the pill & make sure the guy is wearing a condom-do BOTH.
No one has to have a baby if they don't want to.
exactally they can and should use the pill and condom but if they fail what then? they were both responsible, should the girl go through an unwanted pregnancy?

reply from: AshMarie88

if a women dosen't want a baby have sex safe-use the pill & make sure the guy is wearing a condom-do BOTH.
No one has to have a baby if they don't want to.
exactally they can and should use the pill and condom but if they fail what then? they were both responsible, should the girl go through an unwanted pregnancy?
They should take responsibility for their actions, not the easiest way out.

reply from: laurissamarcotte

It's the parents' fault a woman got pregnant, not the baby's. Don't force death upon the baby! If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. Sex isn't needed to live, you know.
She can put the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want to keep it.
Lol. You're saying a fetus is not a baby? This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard! How can it be "just a lifeless clump of cells" a splitsecond before birth, but a baby bursting with life a splitsecond after? How is this scientifically possible?
So do I, forcing a baby to go through a tube and to be mutilated, because their mother's beliefs say they have to.
Ok, so you're against "forcing" women to carry their babies to term because they carelessy had sex, but you're all for a woman forcing her beliefs onto her child by making it die while innocent? Huh?

reply from: FxChiP

I'm hearing a lot of "it's the parents' fault!" rhetoric, and a lot of "you cannot force a pregnancy." The next time you make this argument, please consider that in a rape, the mother is hardly at fault for being pregnant.
As for the "Ku Klux Klan argues for a lot of things!" argument: yes, but those things are all convergent upon the same topic: pro-segregation and pro-separation. Planned Parenthood is pro-choice, pro-homosexuality, pro-birth control (which is a great deal of difference than being pro-choice), pro-adoptions (including those by homosexual couples), and the list apparently goes on.

reply from: FxChiP

Also: please stop the mass quoting. If you're quoting the person you're responding to, please quote only their post. I cannot force you to do this, as I'm not a moderator, but I'm politely requesting this for ease-of-readability and for the sake of not having an "artificially" huge screen. Seriously. One post is like 13 inches for three lines of text.
Thanks in advance.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Why don't you consider rape and read victims and victors by David C. Reardon which contains the only poll ever done of the views on abortion by pregnant rape victims. Guess what? Most of them don't believe in abortion in the case of rape, and those who did abort regretted in and called the abortion worse than rape.

reply from: holopaw

Why? She got herself pregnant, and she has no right to murder her child just because she went and slept with someone. It would not be fair.
so because i personally never want to have kids i should abstain from sex my whould life? People have no right to force a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy.
And yet you have a right to force someone much smaller and innocent than you to die?
If you don't want kids, don't have sex or take precautions when you do. Don't kill someone just because of YOUR mistake.
9-10 months of pregnancy is NOTHING when you're giving someone their own life. A woman can live thru a pregnancy... She shouldn't have the right to kill the baby.
i will thake precautions but birthcontroll can fail, then what?
and a woman could die in a pregnancy expecially if she can complications with her heart.
I notice you use a lot of coulds and probablys. With abortion, there is one definite, an unborn baby wll die. If your precautions fail, then do the responsible thing and have the baby. I drive my car everyday, I try not to cause an accident. But if I do, I don't leave the scene because I didn't intend to cause an accident. I stay and do what is right. Why do you care more about woman than babies? That same type of thinkng contributed to slavery in America. In the beginning white slave owners didn't hate their slaves (the hate grew out of justification for killing them), they just valued their need for labor (and sex slaves) over the Africans need for freedom.

reply from: holopaw

ah but seperation of church and state. the Bible has no place in government only science and women who can think and feal should have more rights than a featus that does not know it exists.
And Whites who built this great country should have more rights than the Blacks who have never given this country a President or even a Vice-President. I go to a major university in the south and the President of the University is white as well as the basketball, football, and baseball coach. In fact, in over 100 years, not a single non-white has held any of those positions. Obviously, Whites who have shown the ability to lead leading research institutions should be the only ones allowed to attend my school.
The point is you can justify anything using the right slant and semantics. That's how Hitler was able to apply the final solution to his problem in Germany.

reply from: holopaw

Why shouldn't they? She got herself pregnant. No one has forced this pregnancy on her, she forced on herself.
And if you don't want to be pregnant you could either
1) use a condom and get an STD or with a slight possibility get pregnant
or 2) abstain for sex and never get pregnant or an STD
Why shouldn't they force a pregnancy on someone? because pregnancy and motherhood is a HUGE responsibility. Some people are not ready to go through that. Not every one who does not want kids will abstain form sex their whole life. and birth controll can fail.
Pregnancy isn't forced on anyone. Pregnancy is a natural process.
And pregnancy and motherhood are responsibilities, but so is sex. MANY people are so careless when having sex, they don't think about the consequences and don't take the best precautions when doing it. People need to be so much more careful.
For the people who don't want kids, they could get sterilized or something of that sort. There is no reason to not when you're having sex and taking the chance of getting pregnancy, when you're just going to abort when you find out you're pregnant.
this is all true. but should pregnancy be used as a punsishment? I dont think it should be. i would hate growing up knowing that i was unwanted. that i was the punishment for someone's mistake.
If your father told you tomorrow that your mother had intentionally gotten pregnant and he never wanted to be a dad or married to her, would you kill yourself?
Would your hate for being "unwanted" be so great that you would end your life, disregarding the friends you've made and the life you've created for yourself?
What if your best friend discovered they were adopted and the result of a one night stand. Their natural mother didn't want to raise a child fathered by a virtual stranger. Your friend is disturbed by the idea they were "Unwanted" and their father doesn't even know they exist, she wants to commit suicide.
Would you try to keep your friend from killing herself?
Is the thought of being "unwanted" truly a reason you'd end your own life or think it was reasonable for a friend to end hers? If not, why would you wish that on an unborn child?

reply from: holopaw

I would be for abortion only if it didn't kill innocent lives. No baby should die by choice.
acually 4,000 pregnancy's are aborted a day, no babies are involved.
in 1st trimester abortions the baby is not even aware of its own existance yet.
4,000 pregnancies are ended a day, but what happens to the UNBORN CHILD? Oh yea, it's cut up and sucked thru a small tube, then disposed of. There ARE babies involved. Little tiny, helpless, defenseless babies that have done nothing to the women carrying them.
Oh I love how people treat others like garbage these days. It's like they think they're the only important ones and those weaker than them should just die. Oh, the humanity. *sarcasm*
yes i do love how people treat eachother today. forcing women to go through a pregnancy, because their beliefs say they have to.
We also tell men they can't beat their wives and kids and that I can't punch a stranger in the face. That's not my belief system, so why should I have to follow it?

reply from: holopaw

You are right in the case of rape.
As I may have said earlier, the Klan is pro-life. They hate abortion. Nothing Pro-Separation/Segregation about that. They would also beat the mess out of a man they discovered was abusing their wife. The Klan holds many traditional values that I agree with. However, in the end they preach racial hatred.
Like many large corporations, PLanned Death has more than one product, but their main stay is preaching murder.
If Planned Death is so Pro-Adoption why are their so few referrals to adoption clinics and millions to abortuaries? Why aren't there any free-standing PP Adoption clinics? Go to the Planned Parenthood website and compare the quantity of information provided on abortion and the info. provided on adoption.
BTW, notice the Pro-Abortion mantra has gone from safe, legal, and rare to safe, legal, and accessible.

reply from: krazzycool

wait hold up... your saying your morals say its ok for a husband to beat the living S*** out of his wife but its horribly wrong for someone to termanate an unwanted pregnancy? Thats just sick.

reply from: holopaw

We also tell men they can't beat their wives and kids and that I can't punch a stranger in the face. That's not my belief system, so why should I have to follow it?

reply from: holopaw

Who are you to force your morals on me? She's my wife, in my house, I'll do whatever I want. Why do you care what I do to MY wife? Mind your own business.
I shouldn't call it abuse. It's more like physical motivation.

reply from: NewPoster1

The maternal mortality rate for an abortion is 0.6 in 100,000.¹
The maternal mortality rate for giving birth is 17 in 100,000.²
It seems to me that this means a woman is 28 ¹/³ times more likely to die from giving birth than she is from an abortion.
¹ http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/press_releases/nr03-29-04-3.cfm

reply from: NewPoster1

² http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_death

reply from: holopaw

You're using wikipedia as a source. Rotfl.

reply from: NewPoster1

You're using wikipedia as a source. Rotfl.
If that's how you feel...
This lists the maternal mortality rate for giving birth at 12 in 100,000, which is still 20 times higher than the rate for an abortion.
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/fs030220.htm

reply from: AshMarie88

The maternal mortality rate for an abortion is 0.6 in 100,000.¹
The maternal mortality rate for giving birth is 17 in 100,000.²
It seems to me that this means a woman is 28 ¹/³ times more likely to die from giving birth than she is from an abortion.
¹ http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/press_releases/nr03-29-04-3.cfm
Give me an unbiased link and MAYBE I'll believe you.

reply from: NewPoster1

This¹ lists the maternal mortality rate for abortion as being between 0.3 and 0.8 in 100,000 and this² lists the maternal mortality rate for abortion as being less than 1 in 100,000.
¹ http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5103a1.htm

reply from: NewPoster1

² http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

reply from: krazzycool

please tell me your kidding.

reply from: holopaw

I am as serious as you are about advocating the murder of an unborn child. I can give you a million reasons why a man might need to physically motivate his wife.

reply from: nsanford

If you are serious, I have lost all respect for you, holopaw.
I gotta hear this. Give me one.

reply from: holopaw

What a man does to his wife is between him, her, and God. I'm not saying I'd ever physically motivate my wife, but I don't believe I have the right to tell another man what he can and can't do to his spouse.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Holo is showing you how ridiculous you sound when you say you wouldn't do wrong but okay the choice for others. Like how Douglass said he thought ppl should have the choice to own slaves.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Abortion isn't safer than childbirth
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_27.asp

reply from: krazzycool

Dont your EVER use an abusive relationship as comparison to abortion. that is the most sick thing i have ever heard. There is NO comparison, the physical and emotional abuse a spouse faces when abused can go on for years and is an endless cycle. It goes much further than the physical pain of beatings, the emotional abuse can crush the spirit. The ordeal of being in a abuseive relationship is something i would not with on anyone.

reply from: yoda

Yes, I agree. Abusive relationships are bad things, but they aren't as bad as killing an innocent baby.
Thanks for pointing that out.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Ash, isn't it like when we compare abortion to slavery? I mean, what we're doing is showing pro-choicers that on other evils they don't support choice, so why slavery?

reply from: holopaw

Ash, isn't it like when we compare abortion to slavery? I mean, what we're doing is showing pro-choicers that on other evils they don't support choice, so why slavery?
That's not Ash, it's Crazy.

reply from: holopaw

The ordeal of being aborted is not something I would wish on anyone.

reply from: Shiprahagain

Sorry, Ash, I misjudged the avatar.

reply from: Tam

That depends. If your goal is to give people a false sense of security, knowing that they will expect the condoms to prevent pregnancy and infection and that, when the condoms fail, they will be potential consumers of abortion products, then perhaps it's better than nothing.
On the other hand, at least people who are not using any form of birth control are (one would hope!) well aware that having intercourse carries a very high risk of pregnancy, unlike the people who are under the false impression that the condom will "protect" them from pregnancy, when really all it does is minimize (sometimes not much--especially with the worst condoms made!!) the risk of pregnancy.

reply from: Tam

I don't think you've demonstrated understanding and respect of pro-life views. I believe that if you ever were actually pro-life, you weren't very solid in what you believed, because the specious arguments of the pro-choice side were able to sway you. How am I so sure? Been there, done that. I was a former pro-lifer before I was a former pro-choicer. I do understand where you are coming from, but unfortunately I am unable to respect deception, and since it is clear to me (although I do not expect you to agree with this) that the pro-choice side is based on massive deception, I cannot respect that position.

reply from: Tam

No offense, Ash, but I think this is not very good advice. If she knows she doesn't want kids, she should not have sex or undergo surgical sterilization. Those "precautions" all have failure rates, and I believe it is wrong to advocate that she trust birth control to prevent a child from being conceived, knowing that a child may very well be conceived and killed.
Many children are killed because their moms wrongly thought that contraception prevents conception. It does not! It merely reduces the chance of conceiving. A big difference--and one that can mean the difference between life and death, for an innocent baby.

reply from: Tam

wow, I hope you stick around, because I think we could have some very productive dialogues. I wish I had more time today to respond to these arguments--all I can think to say now is, would any of these apply IYO to a born baby?

reply from: Tam

The ONLY situation in which a pregnancy is "forced" on someone is when the mother is pregnant by rape.
By "force a pregnancy on someone" you mean "prevent her from killing her unborn child." You are using a euphemism for "forbid them to kill their offspring in utero". That is quite different. When you have urine in your bladder, if I pay a doctor to sew your bladder shut, I am preventing you from urinating. But if I advocate for a law that says you cannot pay a doctor to cut open your bladder and empty it of urine, that is not the same thing as saying I am forcing you to urinate against your will. If I do nothing, you will eventually urinate. It's a natural process, and as the bladder fills, you eventually succumb, even if you don't want to (in which case you might wet your pants). But forbidding you from paying for surgery to artificially empty your bladder is NOT the same thing as forcing you to urinate. No one is forcing you to urinate. That happens naturally, because--you gotta go. Likewise, if a womb contains a child, that child will be born, unless the mother dies. Even if the child dies, a still birth will occur. We can no more "force" anyone to "continue a pregnancy" than we can "force" someone to urinate--or to exhale. These things happen naturally. Your euphemisms may hide from yourself the nature of what you advocate, but they don't hide it from me.

reply from: JosieCashew

Someone "cares about women more?" In some countries, far more little girls than little boys are aborted! Also, that statement kind of sounds to me like the mother is taunting her child, as if she's saying "Ha-ha, I'm better than you because my mom chose to have me, but I'm not going to have you!"

reply from: Tam

Hey, I must protest.
First of all, to advise others to use birth control, saying that no one has to have a baby if she doesn't want to, is irresponsible, because even people using multiple forms of birth control do conceive.
Second, the pill has two functions--to prevent conception and, if conception occurs anyway, to prevent implantation. In other words, the pill causes the deaths of very young children who are trying to implant on the walls of their mothers' wombs.

reply from: Tam

Come on! You don't think being ripped to pieces at your mother's whim constitutes abuse? Abortion is the ultimate child abuse and the ultimate human rights violation! You wouldn't wish on anyone the ordeal of being in an abusive relationship? But you're ok with outright killing of babies--that doesn't sound like "abuse" to you, eh? Think about it!

reply from: Tam

Speaking of "not even aware"--are you even aware of the hilarious contradiction in your post? No babies are involved? Then who's the baby in the second sentence? You know it's a baby, but you have been taught by the choicers that no babies are involved. Seriously, you're smarter than that, so don't buy the lie. An honest pro-choice position is: "I realize that in every successful abortion, at least one unborn baby is killed. Nonetheless, I believe that whether or not to have that baby killed should be decided by the mother alone." Whether or not it's a logical or moral position is debatable, but at least it's an honest position. Honestly, what is your position?

reply from: holopaw

Speaking of "not even aware"--are you even aware of the hilarious contradiction in your post? No babies are involved? Then who's the baby in the second sentence? You know it's a baby, but you have been taught by the choicers that no babies are involved. Seriously, you're smarter than that, so don't buy the lie. An honest pro-choice position is: "I realize that in every successful abortion, at least one unborn baby is killed. Nonetheless, I believe that whether or not to have that baby killed should be decided by the mother alone." Whether or not it's a logical or moral position is debatable, but at least it's an honest position. Honestly, what is your position?
It is very apparent that krazzy is new to the abortion debate game. With more experience, she will call them zefs, insentient beings, products of concepts, and stress how they are part of the mother, like a kidney.


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